[Gary Small]

Nik may follow up with more on this, but of the three export options (from the File System Window), apparently you are choosing “copies the original and rating / adjustment metadata to the Photo Library”.

I do not place any RAW files in Apple Photos (AP) due waste of space AND AP does not natively render Fuji RAF compressed files, so I have never tried this. BUT…apparently YOUR untouched RAW file is going into AP along with some “xmp” file / data. I don’t know if AP will use that XMP sidecar (which in all of my experience is a non standard XMP file that nothing else can read). If AP does not read that XMP file, then there is no way for it to see your edits since they are never “baked in” to RAW files (by design).

Watching this to see if there is additional clarity or corrections from Nik….gary

[Gary Small]

Are you selecting “metadata:include all” in your export settings? Otherwise, I don’t see how any edits done would not sync in iCloud. So if this is still not working, I will follow this for any explanation or troubleshooting offered by Nik…gary

[Gary Small]

Doesn’t seem like a Nitro issue to me, but the dysfunctionality of Apple Photos which only allow sorting via “Oldest / Newest” or Title. Unless you have titled the files, you’re stuck with your current issue. I want to sort by Filename, which I use “Finder Rename” to something meaningful before I do anything else. I had to buy Photos Workbench (Houdah Software – $29) which allows me to copy filename to Title, so I can THEN sort by title. This works for me, but annoying to buy another app to get it to work. I also use Finder Tags (Apples own system feature) when renaming files, but Apple Photos does not recognize Apple’s own finder Tags either (go figure!).

I would not use Apple Photos except for the convenience of iCloud on multiple devices. I use other software to manage a catalog of original (mostly RAW) files and do almost all my editing in other apps, then export to HEIC or JXL to finally import into Apple Photos.

Nitro can handle the edit / conversion to HEIC and export into Photos, but so far, the xmp sidecars are not useable in any other apps, which means that any work done in Nitro is hostage to only Nitro and things like ratings etc aren’t seen by other software… so that breaks its functionality for me….good luck…gary

[Gary Small]

I would agree that expecting full DAM capability from Nitro is outside it’s intended scope. I have used Photo Mechanic, Photo Supreme and recently Digikam for DAM tasks. All work well and do not try to be photo editors. The one thing that I think Nitro REALLY needs to address, (and Nik has previously commented on this) is the non standard xmp file format which is totally (to my knowledge) unusable outside of Nitro..meaning that tags and ratings entered into Nitro is useless everywhere else. What I recently discovered in Digicam is that it ALSO does the “file.ext.xmp” format like Nitro…BUT… has a setting that allows one to use xmp format that IS compatible with “commercial software” (Digicam is free /open source) with a note about the issue of the conflict with raw/jpeg stacks. Selecting that option solves the issue as far as I am concerned. NOT having the ability to write standard xmp sidecars is a global killer for me in terms of workflow. Otherwise, Nitro would be the first (and for the majority of files) the only step needed in workflow. Otherwise, I need to cull,tag and rate photos elsewhere, which opens a fork in the road for which “editor” to use. I really hope this xmp issue can get resolved at some point….gary

[Gary Small]

Thanks Nik! For sure, the combination of Adobe and Apple’s smug attitudes of “not playing nice with others” is at the heart of this, and waiting for them to “see the light” is a fool’s errand.

I think I understand your position more clearly now and appreciate the conservative approach philosophically. It clearly works if one’s workflow is entirely in Nitro, but that isn’t realistic. I am only a hobbyist and may be somewhat uniformed about the universe of software and users, but my sense is that all other software that I am familiar with DO write metadata into DNGs and other non raw formats. I always assume that is the case with any other software, so it would seem to be a “standard” that users would expect with no fault accruable to Nitro when metadata is embedded in those files. This would eliminate the issue of Raw+Jpeg, which I have no sense of how often that is users by photographers. I seldom use Raw+JPEG, even though my Fujis have some great film simulations. When I DO shoot Raw+Jpeg, I segregate the two formats and edit them separately, which is simple to do, and makes no sense to do otherwise.

As you say, there are always “feature requests”, but this is fundamental to workflow. We all respect your efforts and value the product, so I will keep Nitro on the “shelf” until there is (or I can find) a workflow that is useable for me…..gary

[Gary Small]

This is a belated follow up, but a new twist (I think). So now working with Photo Mechanic and Nitro (File System)…I can add keywords to RAW files in Nitro and see them in Photo Mechanic, but when I add keywords to Apple DNG (iPhone ProRaw) files, they are NOT visible in Photo Mechanic (or other apps including Apple Preview Info). I can add keywords in Photo Mechanic to DNGs (as well as raw files) and Nitro DOES see them.

So I’m not sure how the previous explanation really applies. When Nitro adds keywords to my Fuji “Raf” files, there is an “xmp” file AFTER the raw file, and other apps see it. When Nitro adds keywords to the DNG files, the “xmp” file is BEFORE the file and other software(s) do NOT see it.

I don’t really see the consistency here. I would REALLY like to be able to use Nitro to add initial metadata to my iPhone 17pro (ProRaw) files (DNGs) like I can the raws from my other “real” cameras, but not possible currently as I understand it.

Any chance of a “fix” for this? Thanks….Gary

[Gary Small]

I do follow the explanations, but the current process kills my workflow (as previously described). What DOES work (which wasn’t my hoped for solution) is to import the files into Apple Photos with all metadata intact, then use Nitro to edit in the Photos Library feature. This only works with my non-raw files (roughly from the dawn of time to about 2008, when I started shooting in raw. Since Apple after all this time still does not read Fuji compressed, those files need another process. Those files will be developed initially with DxO Photolab, exported to TIFF, then converted to HEIC or JXL for final tweaking.

[Gary Small]

So thanks to Kevin for alerting me to OSXphotos, which I will take a look at (eventually) and also for Nik’s reply, which makes sense, but if I read it correctly would possibly work in Nitro, but not CHANGE the titles that would still be needed in Apple Photos.

So if anyone else is interested, my research put me on to Photo Workbench (https://www.houdah.com). For about $30 (US) it does exactly what I need.

The process (for me) is to go one folder at a time (I organize by year), select all photos in the folder, click on the “Change Titles” menu at top of page, Method is Name Format, select File Name from elipse symbol and click “OK”….DONE and FAST!

I need to do some work anyway in my AP library and will use Nitro’s Flagging (mostly reject) to thin things out, but having the folders actually sorted by the same file structure as in the Finder is a major help.

Shame on Apple for this seriously dysfunctional way of sorting, but I guess it creates opportunities for the independent developers.

gary

[Gary Small]

So it turns out that I CAN do this with the photos OUTSIDE of the Apple Photos library using Photo Supreme, Graphic Converter (already tested both) and “probably” Photo Mechanic. So THAT would mean exporting out all the photos from the library, doing the process, then re-importing into AP -OR- simply delete the library, do the thing externally, then re-export the (mainly raw) files out (again) to compressed HEIC or JpegXL and then re-import into a blank library…either way a huge PITA.

I’d much prefer to do it inside the library, but it may not be possible. It appears that Nitro also follows the same requirement in a Photo Library window, where it clearly does NOT in a folder view.

So definitely hoping for some enlightenment.

thanks

gary

[Gary Small]

Thanks Nik…got it. I know the key-stoning issue was a result of the angle I was forced to use (narrow spaces), but was just surprised to see there was no lens correction for an iPhone. I suspect that the “computational” processing manages distortion internally.

thanks

[Gary Small]

Richardb’s postulated workflow is similar to what I do. To import Fuji X-T5 RAF files and iPhone 17 Pro Raw (DNG) files into “Photos” would be a failed “IQ” test for me, since Photos won’t process Fuji Compressed Raw and in any case the file size (along with the iPhone DNG files) would bloat my iCloud storage, even after culling.

I store those original files in yearly folders. I use the Finder to batch rename the files “YYYY_MM_location_sequence). Nitro can do this too, (I like the underscore _ separator better than the hyphen -), but mainly, I also add Finder tags at the same time. I use Photo Supreme for folder asset management which will read Finder tags and automatically add identical Keywords (Graphic Converter can do this too, but it is an extra step with additional software). I then add those new photos to Nitro for editing (and additional keyboarding) and finally use the export direct to Photos using HEIC files. I would RATHER export using JpegXL (better compression and 16 bit color capable), but Nik hasn’t committed to add that option.

Once the exports are in Photos, I might use some of the 3rd party extensions (on1, Luminar Neo etc) to do final tweaks. The main thing is that the original (large) files are stored on local drives accessible to Nitro if re-edits are desired, and iCloud Photos manages the small processed photos and are globally accessible to my devices.

[Gary Small]

Good article, prompted me to install Apolloone. Not seeing it as very useful with nothing not already in Nitro…unless I am just not seeing the “big picture”. For starters, it is not seeing keywords that are created in Nitro and visible in other apps. It supposedly has “Keyword Management”, but if it doesn’t see existing keywords (tried RAF with xmp sidecars and iPhone DNG files), it is a non starter for me. Glad it was free to try.

I am open to “standing corrected” if anyone thinks I’ve simply missed the key to using Apolloone, or eventually I will remove it. I simply do not see it being anywhere near in the same class as Nitro……gary

[Gary Small]

Of course, leave it to Apple to muddy the feature with a new OS release. I’m not fully sure I think I understand your point about colors, but as long as “portrait” is still spelled “portrait” the Finder would (find) “portrait”. I know finder tags are weird because the system does not allow one to sort or alphabetize them (among other possible issues as you point out). While colors aren’t really that useful to me, I do note that when I add tags in the Finder, the colors default to the same color as previously used.

I DID see that I could (and did) “import” finder tags and see them displayed in the Info panel, but haven’t explored if it has any search functionality.

Thanks Nik.

Gary

[Gary Small]

Thanks Nik, but your post today indicates that Nitro “supports” Finder tags in Tahoe. Have you posted any clarification on that? The cataloging software (Photo Supreme) writes finder tags as a synchronization option. I suppose the issue you described with changing those tags outside of Nitro or other PHOTO software could be an issue, but I simply see it as a “one way street” in terms of writing finder tags. The photo software doesn’t need to read or import them…but the option exits in the Finder to do a Spotlight search if one discontinues using a certain commercially branded photo software.

My case in point is moving away from Lightroom (a few years back) left me with a hierarchical keyword mess that took hours to untangle with other software (Photo Mechanic). Having finder tags would be a nice backup.

gary

[Gary Small]

I think Heic compatibility outside of the Apple universe are too problematic to be useful when coming straight out of the camera or iPhone. I’ve read that Google dropped support for jpeg-xl maybe because rendering time issues over the compression… so JXL may be lost in the wilderness for a fair amount of time.

I think a workflow (developing AND keyboarding) using Nitro initially with export of Heic files into Photos library and moving the raw (or other original) files to a dedicated catalog (Photo Mechanic, Photo supreme, xnView) with keywords hopefully intact will work pretty well for me.

thanks

gary

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