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One of my frustrations with the otherwise amazing Nitro is how long it can take to process all the images and go from low resolution proxies to higher resolution ones. On top of this they don’t seem to update as they are created. I have to double click, see if it exists, and escape out if it doesn’t… and then wait.
And along with that, if I then scroll down to the middle or end, and then want to see an image I just have to wait. If I double click an image it should get priority to be processed
Hi Jock – sorry to hear you are having these issues. It certainly sounds frustrating. I am unclear on some of your terms. What is a “proxy?” Are you referring to thumbnails in the grid, or larger images in the viewer?
As far as updating, are you referring to decoding of the RAW? and if so, updating how? Do the thumbnails need to be re-rendered for some reason? What’s wrong with them?
What camera(s) are you using? Does this also happen with JPEGs?
Essentially yes, thumbnails. Whatever you call the images that appear in the grid view. I am working with DNG images that come off either a Yi M1 Micro Four Thirds camera, or from the camera that I am developing which also produces DNGs. In both cases there are embedded thumbnails in the images. I believe I have seen the same phenomena with CR2 files from 50D, but I would have to double check to be sure.
I can’t speak about JPEGs because I have never used Nitro with them lol
This is images fresh from the microSD and placed in a directory. I then open nitro and point it at the directory and work from there. The thumbnails look like a very low resolution image that has been blown up to the size of the thumbnail, if I double click it then it opens and is scaled up further.
If I wait then eventually the image will be processed/re-rendered/whatever the correct term is, and if I double click it then I will see the full sized image. If I hit escape to close it then that thumbnail (and only that thumbnail) will be updated to be correct.
Does that make more sense?
PS: It is a shame there is no way to upload images here so I could show you without the extra step of going to an image hosting service
“Yi M1 Micro Four Thirds camera” and “the camera that I am developing which also produces DNGs”
Your post sounds very much like a problem having to do with the unusual gear that you are using. I do not experience anything like what you describe with my FUJIFILM X-T5 and FUJIFILM X-T4 cameras.
Sounds more like a request for expanded support than a feature request that most other users of Nitro would benefit from.
@Karl Don’t blame the camera for a problem with nitro, nor am I asking for expanded format support. macOS can preview these images just fine and rapidly; and we know that Nitro is using macOS’s build in RAW handling.
I present the idea that these images match the standard and not Nitro’s ideas of embedded thumbnail size (or something of the like). If that is the case, then that is a problem with Nitro. Full stop. No similar program (Lightroom, Rawtherapee, etc) display this problem, only Nitro.
So this is a problem with how Nitro handles processing images outside of it’s assumptions, it is a Nitro problem… not a problem of my camera. Software should handle things like this with grace, and clearly is a scenario the developer didn’t think of. That’s fine, we can’t think of everything, but once made aware they have to decide do they address it or not.
But right now I have 2000+ images from a trip I need to deal with, broken into folders by date, and I have to click on a directory, wait an indeterminate amount of time, and hope all the images have been processed, then move to the next folder and repeat.
This is not tenable, especially because if I step away from my computer for an extended period of time, almost all of the UI elements of Nitro disappear and the app is unusable until I close and repoen the app.
Hey, Jock, is the Nitro Photo app your only course of action with your 2000 photos from a camera I’d never heard of until your post?
At the moment, I (own and) depend on DxO PhotoLab 8 software for decoding, denoising, and adjusting my raw files.
But I also like to process my raws in the Nitro Photo app because I find it to be fun to use and I often can export JPEGs that I like as well or better than what I get from PhotoLab.
And I know that Nitro is a relatively new app created by a single developer as opposed to the dozens, hundreds, or even thousands of technical staff available to other makers of photo software.
In the past, I’ve subscribed to Lightroom and Photoshop and owned CaptureOne. I also currently have access to Affinity (free), DxO PhotoLab 8 (own), FUJIFILM X RAW STUDIO (free), Nitro (subscribe), Photomator (subscribe), and trials or demos of Exposure X7 and Iridient Developer. I think it is safe to say that we have more choice than ever before when it comes to photo processing software.
Unless you tell me you have spent most of your adult life developing software, I doubt your qualification to make disparaging comments about software and developers.
No not at all, but Nitro is the one I would prefer to be using.
Also I have been a professional software engineer who has a bit over 40 years of experience, including in DAM (Digital Asset Management) software — as well as a semi professional photographer for nearly 20 years. But I also not believe I need to be a Subject Matter Expert in either field to have reasonable expectations about the behavior of Nitro in contrast to it’s competitors. It feels like a bad form of Argument from authority.
Nor do I agree that what I made was disparaging comments about the software or the developers. I was pointing out a scenario they apparently didn’t consider and haven’t addressed. I said I couldn’t use it and explained why. I never said anything mean or cruel about the developers (who I have great admiration for, especially because of their previous work on Aperture).
However in two messages now it feels like you are putting the blame on my equipment, or my decision making process, and not based on what the software claims to be able to do; and what the expected behaviors should be.
Nitro reads thumbnails and previews from the RAW file. Many camera manufacturers produce substandard thumbnails and previews. For example, Hasselblad is infamous for its tiny preview for gigantic sensors. Sony historically also produces needlessly small embedded thumbnails / preview.
You can see the size of the embedded preview by using Exiftool.
This is what I get for a Sony A7R3 (42 megapixels) – the preview is 1.7 MP. That’s bad!
Full Image Size : 7952×5304
Preview Image Size : 1616×1080Lightroom does not have this problem because it requires that all images be imported. During that process it replaces the thumbnail and preview with its own rendering. But that import process takes time. Nitro avoids import entirely and just reads the files. The downside is that it is reliant on having a decent thumbnail / preview from the camera.
There is a solution to this. You can do one of two things (short of using a camera that produces decent embedded images)
1) Select the images and use Build Thumbnails. That will take some time, but it has to open each image and process it.
2) Go into Nitro Settings and turn OFF “Quick Preview” and also turn ON “Update Thumbnails in Quick Preview”. The app will then replace thumbnails as it goes with the RAW rendering.Of course, you can do both.
These are not the default because rendering thumbnails from the RAW slows the app down.
Jock, my feeling are not easily hurt, so your comments did not bother me greatly. However, I would say that you seem aggravated and that tone did seep into the post. And despite your statement, “I was pointing out a scenario they apparently didn’t consider and haven’t addressed,” I have both considered and (attempted) to address it.
I hope these features in the app help with your workflow.
Nik, it feels like there is a middle ground, if the embedded thumbnails are below a certain threshold, then warn the user and give them an option; because as it stands I am presented with very low quality thumbnails…
I have trouble calling them thumbnails when that is what I see when I double click as well, this is why I called them proxies
…and empirically it feels like the only solution is to wait. I am glad your alternative exists, but how would I know I need to use it? How would I know to use it without going into settings? I inspected all the menus for an option, but honestly didn’t think to go to settings.
If I sound hostile, it is actually frustation. I spent a couple hours just trying to start rating the pictures. My previous experience with Nitro had been with 50-75 picture shoots, so it wasn’t as obvious what was going on. I personally had assumed that Nitro would have a thread pool that processed the images in the background doing an import on the fly. I am not telling you what to do, but describing my misunderstanding.
I think Nitro is an amazing program, I want to use it as my daily driver for asset management/prep, but I feel like there is a disconnect between how you want the app to work, and how I expect it to. That’s fine, it’s your app, you get to decide, but I think it is obtuse if you live with a camera that is basically an edge case to your expectations.
Also I tried your suggestion, yes I could then visit each image in turn and get it to demand generate a better thumbnail. I had hoped for a batch option, either that worked in the background, or put up a modal progress bar. But visiting every single image and waiting during the review and rating phase doesn’t feel ideal to me
OH forgot to say, both of those options were on by default for me, it was only by turning off Quick Preview that I was able to get them to update.
I also clearly somehoe missed build thumbails, that is 100% on me. However when I just ran it, it didn’t seem to update the display at all. I had to double click on the image and then escape out
OH forgot to say, both of those options were on by default for me, it was only by turning off Quick Preview that I was able to get them to update.
I also clearly somehoe missed build thumbails, that is 100% on me. However when I just ran it, it didn’t seem to update the display at all. I had to double click on the image and then escape out
OK however if I select a group of images and then select build thumbnails then it updates them all. Can I just update all RAW images without selecting them? Or even just all images?
Unclear on your question about updating all RAW images without selecting them. No, you have to select them, or use the other setting which will update thumbnails as it goes. In your case, selecting a bunch of images and building thumbnails is likely to work best for you.
As far as prompting people if the thumbnails are low quality, yes, I suppose so. I tend to dislike mysterious-sounding dialogs or having the app behave in different ways based on the image type (e.g., it could see you have crappy thumbnails and then update them) because people won’t understand why some images update and others don’t. And no one reads alerts.
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